The Official Azzurri thread 2

[Bagg10]

Scatta l'era Prandelli
Ecco l'Italia che verrà
A parte il cambio tecnico, urge un rinnovamento nella rosa. Scopriamo chi resta e chi chiude la sua avventura. Punti fermi: Buffon e Pirlo. Da Ranocchia a Matri, i possibili innesti. La nuova Italia debutta l'11 agosto

Cesare Prandelli è nato a Orzinuovi il 19 agosto 1957. LaPresse
Cesare Prandelli è nato a Orzinuovi il 19 agosto 1957. LaPresse

JOHANNESBURG (Sudafrica), 25 giugno 2010 - E’ già l’Italia di Prandelli. Che deve per forza guardare avanti, dopo la figuraccia storica fatta contro la Slovacchia, ed un’eliminazione dal Mondiale sudafricano tanto precoce quanto senza scusanti. Stamani alle 11 parlerà il presidente federale Abete: del presente, desolante da non crederci, ancora, e di futuro, si spera all’altezza di un passato glorioso che non è certo preistoria. Poi, alle 12, sarà il turno dell’addio di Cannavaro.

RESPONSABILITA’ E CALCIO ITALIANO IN CRISI — Lui, il capitano, eroe di Berlino nel 2006 e tra i primi imputati di questo fallimento africano, non ci sarà, nel futuro della Nazionale. Chiude da recordman di presenze, a quota 136. Ma non sarà il solo a lasciare l’azzurro. Serve un rinnovamento. Lippi si è preso tutte le responsabilità del tracollo, ma Buffon avverte che il livello del calcio italiano adesso è questo, e che i risultati avvilenti sono stati lo specchio del movimento. E se la verità probabilmente sta nel mezzo, è certo che un rinnovamento di una formazione non solo vecchia, ma anche logora in alcuni elementi, è necessario. Da chi ripartire di questo gruppo di 23? E con chi integrarlo per invertire rapidamente la rotta, già dall’11 agosto, data delle prima amichevole dell’Italia di Prandelli, in prospettiva Europeo 2012 in Polonia-Ucraina?

CHI RESTA, CHI PUO’ ARRIVARE — Portieri: Buffon deve risolvere i suoi guai con la schiena, e potrebbe stare fuori un po’, ma resta una certezza, ci mancherebbe. La sua personalità è mancata tanto, contro la Slovacchia. Marchetti non ha certo brillato, ma nemmeno ha commesso errori imperdonabili. Probabile che rimanga nel giro azzurro, con Sirigu, vittima dell’ultimo taglio dei convocati, a Sestriere. De Sanctis è fuori causa, ciclo chiuso.

DIFENSORI — Zambrotta ha detto di non voler dare l’addio all’azzurro. Ma potrebbe essere vittima del rinnovamento: alle sue spalle spingono Cassani e Maggio, che può giocare anche più "alto", non solo da terzino destro. Da osservare anche Motta e Santon. Centrali: Cannavaro lascia, Bonucci e Chiellini potrebbero essere la coppia del futuro, Ranocchia il nome nuovo. Bocchetti è un’incognita, può tornar buono Gamberini, ed essere ripescato Santacroce. Fascia sinistra: Criscito è presente e futuro, da seguire De Ceglie e Antonini. Non c’ molto altro nel campionato italiano.

CENTROCAMPO — Gattuso lascia, parole sue. Camoranesi invece si mette a disposizione del nuovo c.t., ma difficilmente ci sarà spazio per lui nel nuovo ciclo. Improbabile invece che Prandelli faccia a meno di Pirlo, che pure non è un ragazzino: il suo infortunio è costato caro a Lippi. Futuro azzurro sicuro per i vari De Rossi, Montolivo e Marchisio, che in Polonia-Ucraina ci saranno, a meno di infortuni. Più incerta la situazione di Pepe, che comunque alla Juve avrà una bella vetrina, e Palombo. I possibili innesti: Candreva, Poli, Galloppa, Pulzetti, D’Agostino, Lazzari e Aquilani, se gli infortuni gli danno tregua, in mezzo; Mannini, Palladino, Marchionni, Cerci e Abate come esterni.

ATTACCO — Di Natale non è un bambino, la sua avventura si chiude qui. Quagliarella, positivo, e Pazzini, ingiudicabile, non escono ridimensionati da questo Mondiale, come invece succede a Gilardino e Iaquinta. I nomi nuovi sono quelli classici. Cassano e Balotelli, oltre a Miccoli, Giuseppe Rossi, Borriello e Matri.
dal nostro inviato
Riccardo Pratesi


http://www.gazzetta.it/Speciali/Mondiale_2010/Squadre/25-06-2010/italia-ora-tocca-prandelli-71216861833.shtml

[Lombardiamia]

New thread, good start. Now Shield pls take off that pathetic banner...or rather, pls take off that pathetic figure from that banner.

[Messinterista]

Actually, please do change that. Replace it with Prandelli's face

[tonykart]

Did you guys really think that taking a younger team to the WC would have produced a better result? I highly doubt players like Candreva, Rossi, Giovinco, Balotelli, Cigarini, Bonucci, or Consigli are ready for such a burden. We saw that massive failings of Marchisio, Criscito, Montolivo, Marchetti and Pepe... what makes you think the others would be any different?

The difference with Germany and Italy is that the German league is less competitive (maybe not as much as it used to be) than Italy and German teams can risk playing young players regularily in league games. For one reason or another, good reason or bad, Italian coaches do not play young Italian players. Not even Mourinho had the sack to use Santon in his last season at Inter. Why?

You can't play players who have no experience. Age is not that big of a factor when you consider that none of these players actually play on any kind of regular basis. Giovinco, who is the best player on our Under-21 team, doesn't even smell the grass on Juventus. How do you expect him to play of the national team?

The problem with the NT in the 2010 world cup was a lack of class in attack and a lack of balance in our formation. When you have two aggressive CBs like Cannavaro and Chiellini, you need a full time diaper at DM. De Rossi is not positionally sound enough to play in that role. His lack of tactical intelligence left our CBs exposed.

Our sidebacks, besides Zambrotta in the first game did absolutely nothing. Criscito was a little worse than Zambrotta who was just plain pointless.

Montolivo was awfully inconsistent, has no personality and should only be left on the team if Prandelli truly believes he can improve. Marchisio has absolutely no identity and needs to get back on club level form before getting recalled.

The problem with this team was a lack of Cassano and the lack of a true destroyer. Why Palombo and De Rossi weren't used together is beyond me. A 4-4-2 with Buffon; Maggio, Cannavaro, Chiellini, Criscito; Marchisio, Palombo, De Rossi, Pepe; Cassano, Pazzini. Should have been used from day 1.

Why post this in the new thread? Because the National does not need to become an Under-21 squad. That is NOT the solution. Balotelli is NOT the answer. The guy saw how many red cards at the last international U21 tournament? Seriously, how can you take an asshole like that? Balo needs to display some serious maturity for two years before being seriosuly considered for ANY team.

Motta and Santon... that's cute and all, but when did we see Santon play last? How can we judge how he will produce on the national stage if we don't even see him at club level. Motta is a solid choice, but I beleive Maggio is the better bet right now. He is faster, has more experience and if we use two DMs we can play with attack minded sidebacks.

Who plays next to Chiellini? Bonucci and Ranocchia have a lot to prove, Bocchetti is too aggressive minded, Andreolli was our best U21 defender, but does he even play in Serie B? Gamberini is a hot head, Barzagli is a faggot... who is there in Italy who can play next to Chiellini? Where is the young, Italian CB talent? What happened?

If De Rossi is the future captain of Italy, I'm frightened. Having a beard doesn't make you tough or charismatic. I do think he should be in the starting 11 however, but needs to play with a full time stopper. Palombo and Nocerino are the only Italians that fit this mold. Since our defence will never again have great players like Nesta, Cannavaro (pre-2007), Scirea, Maldini, etc, we need to cover them a LOT better. Italian football is and should be about locking things down defensively and scrapping out results. Let's keep our identity, but just go about it another way.

So who takes over for Pirlo? Surely we aren't going to run a 35 year old Pirlo onto the 2014 WC pitch? Who can handle that role? If our midfield consists of De Rossi and Palombo (whoopee) who do we play with them? Do we roll 4-4-2 and just play with two flankers? Do we add a CM that can dictate tempo in the mold of Pirlo? Do we even have any promising youngsters that are good enough?

I say play 4-4-2. Use Giovinco as Ribery was used in 2006... on the left flank. Play Cassano up top with Pazzini (who is the only promising young striker in Italy) and fill in the RM gap with someone that has a good work ethic and can drift inside, allowing Maggio to make overlapping runs.

But, who replaces Buffon? Surely with his back the way it is he wont make it to 2014. Is there any Italian goal keeping talent?

--------------------- SIRIGU

MAGGIO - RANOCCHIA - CHIELLINI - CRISITO

MARCHISIO - PALOMBO - DE ROSSI - GIOVINCO

-------------- PAZZINI ----- CASSANO

Bench: Consigli, Amelia; Santon, Bonucci, Gamberini, Motta; Pepe, Nocerino, D'Agostino; Quagliarella, Balotelli, Borriello.

---------------------- SIRIGU

MAGGIO - RANOCCHIA - CHIELLINI - CRISCITO

------ DE ROSSI - PALOMBO - D'AGOSTINO

--------------------- GIOVINCO

------------- PAZZINI -------- CASSANO

Italy needs to start getting serious about developing young talent. The game is changing and we are falling behind. Farsopoli was the beginning of the end. Italy bit the hand that fed them.

[Lombardiamia]

Whereas I agree in part with you, I just wanted to point out that Santon was injured for practically 6 months, same as Ranocchia who is the best young Italian defender around. Balotelli is a crack head, but since you mentioned it, he just got 1 red card in the last Euro championship. Hardly a justification for not chosing him. I'd aso give Giuseppe Rossi a decent shot too.
Oh and since the nation has accustomed itself to the Oriundi, 'thanks' to Lippi & Camoranesi, we might as well add Thiago Motta in the mix for the midfield role. He surely doesnt need much of an introduction at the highest levels. He's got Italian grandparents. Both o them...unlike Camo or some Amauri.

[juventino_italiano]

Did you guys really think that taking a younger team to the WC would have produced a better result? I highly doubt players like Candreva, Rossi, Giovinco, Balotelli, Cigarini, Bonucci, or Consigli are ready for such a burden. We saw that massive failings of Marchisio, Criscito, Montolivo, Marchetti and Pepe... what makes you think the others would be any different?

Yes it would have made a difference tony, but not dong it Lippi style i which he just threw these young guys into the fire.

For Germany, Low integrated these young guys and new guys throughout 2 years of qualifiers and friendlies.

Lippi should have arranged 2 more friendlies before the tournament.
and more importantly should have had proper lineups and formation while integrating new and young players and should have done this throughout the two years leading up to the tournament.

ESPECIALLY DURING THE CONFEDERATIONS CUP!!!

That was a golden opportunity that Italy will not have again

[tonykart]

But Rossi lost a lot of playing time at Villareal. Balotelli didn't touch the field for Inter due to a childish fued with Mourinho, Santon as Lombardia mentioned was injured, Ranocchia was injured, and are you really going to start Bonucci over Cannavaro?

Our young talent wasn't ready. Sure, Lippi could have done a better job implementing them, but playing a few international friendlies doesn't get you the confidence or consistenct needed to compete on a world stage.

I blame Lippi for not picking the right midfield and not taking Cassano. The lack of Cassano alone took us from contenders to jokers. NO, I didn't expect to finish last in a shithole group, but I didn't expect us to get out of the first knockout round.

[Zoff82]

Miccoli to make a comeback?? A set-piece threat as well as one in the box?? That position is going to be loaded next season. Prandelli is not as stubborn as Lippi, can't wait to see who he calls up on Sept 3. Pirlo could still be used for the Euros, especially the qualifiers.

[Carlo Romano]

I wasn't even going to bother to post after this disgraceful farce of a campaign and in any case, Tony has already summed up many of my own feelings. I do have this to add though...

I agree with many in Italy who are saying the present Azzurri squad is the worst to ever represent us, even more so than the 1966 side which had previously been the absolute pits. Most certainly worse than 1962 which ranks with 1974 when we on those occasions won one game at least, drew one, and lost one.

There is much talk now of the relative inexperience of certain Italiani at top level. For all his faults, Giancarlo Abete is correct to be concerned about the sheer number of stranieri playing in Italy and since we can't now repeat the "closed doors" act of post-1966, some typically Italian compromise must be arrived at and the sooner the better because grass will grow quicker than Uefa's proposal of a "6 & 5" limitation being installed.

As I posted a few days ago, it's a frightening statistic that only one player from Italy's top two placed clubs in Serie A was realistically able to be called up...and he was prone to mistakes through being jaded by over use in a harder than necessary season thanks to the lack of depth in Rosella Sensi's cash strapped Roma!

On team selection, I nodded in agreement when I read Cannavaro reminding us: "I respect Cassano, but we played two European Championships with him and didn’t win either of them." My personal opinion is that although he is worth having, he is not the superman some think him to be and I'd select him only because we don't have a young Totti or Antognoni!

We do however have as Dino says, Fabrizio Miccoli, to say nothing of Giuseppe Rossi...and yes, Pirlo too, an absolute must in midfield!

I don't envy Prandelli his new job and I still say although he will improve upon things for us, he will not lead us to greatness. Perhaps after 2012 we will see Ancelotti or Capello as CT.

[p_maldini_3]

somebody mentioned d'agostino earlier; i haven't seen too much of him but i saw him run the midfield against milan during the season and he was a marvelous player. hopefully he can put his injury troubles behind him and get into the squad. same goes for aquilani.

[ricky2882]

--------------------Buffon

---Maggio - Chiellini - Bonucci - Balzaretti

---------De Rossi - Pirlo - Palombo

------------------Cassano

---------------Pazzini - Miccoli

Bench: Sirigu; Cassani, Ranocchia, Gamberini, Criscito; Marchisio, D'Agostino/Montolivo; Giovinco; Quagliarella, Rossi, Borriello.

That's WC-winning material right there.

[Giacomo]

I see some of you have fallen for the "this was the best squad available" spin that Abete, Lippi, Buffon and Cannavaro put on this WC campaign! That's being really gullible and, furthermore, it overlooks continual errors by Lippi that have been regaularly catalouged over the last 2 years and which were magnified over the last 2 weeks.

With proper coaching this squad - yes, the 23 Lippi actually took - would have won this group, the poorest Italy has ever played in at a WC, without over-extending itself. Then a game against Japan would probably have led to a very close quarter-final against Spain or Portugal and, at the least, an honourable exit.

Looking ahead, I couldn't disagree more. I believe Prandelli is the right choice, that he will qualify for euro2012 and, once there, Italy will have a good tournament.
Prandelli has already proven in Serie A and in CL/EL that he is capable of achieving good results through excellent football.

Calcio is in need of some reflection, which would have been the case whatever happened in this WC, particularly in how younger players are integrated into Serie A teams, but long term the Azzurri will be fine so long as a coaching appointment like Lippi (v. 2) is not repeated.

[Lombardiamia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOd4mXqw ... r_embedded

Would have liked to close the previous thread with this vid, but its locked.

[tonykart]

It wasn't the best squad available, but it wasn't far off. All this team needed was a DM and Cassano. One generation of talent is too old, the other generation is too young. Guys like Miccoli are good, but did he do well enough in qualifiers to deserve a start? Maybe. Still, we're out now and need to look for the future.

Prandelli is a great appointment. I am disappointed because I wanted to see him come to Juventus, because he is too young to coach a national side. But, he really wanted to fix Italy and I beleive he will. He needs to understand more about defensive football though. His sides always give up important goals and struggle to defend as a team. This is a huge problem if he is going to coach International football as we see every team button up.

Players like Miccoli, Cassano, Giovinco, Rossi, D'Agostino, Nocerino, Cassani, Balzaretti, Ranocchia, and others now have a chance of getting on the NT. But, we have to make sure that these guys are seeing enough PT for their club sides first. A few scattered friendlies is not enough to judge someones capabilities at the national level. Not to mention how much different the game is from actual competitions to friendlies. We saw Di Natale lighting it up before Euro Cup and then (as I predicted) he struggled immensly when teams started getting more desperate.

Picking players based on club form and friendly performance is just one factor. Prandelli need to analyze how these players perform in pressure situations and on the big stage. I bet a million buck if a player like Di Natale was picked up by Inter, Juventus or Milan he would be much better in major competitions. But, these teams no longer have faith in top Italian players. It's not just youth that is getting gyped out of good contracts.

Look at Juventus how they ship away Criscito, Nocerino, Palladino, Miccoli, Cassani, Balzaretti, and don't sign players like Quagliarella, Di Natale, Barzagli, Palombo, Cassano or D'Agostino when they had the chance. Instead they sign players like Almiron, Tiago, Amauri, Poulsen, Sissoko, Melo, Diego, and Knezevic. Look at Inter Milan who don't have any Italians in their starting 11! What a disgrace to the game. Even our 2nd place finishers Roma only start 3 Italians. Milan would rather run out geriatrics like Seedorf and Zambrotta when they could easily sign good young Italians. But, I give them the most credit of all the big teams. At least they have a good Italian base still.

Fiorentina, Lazio and soon Napoli will sport primarily foreign sides. It isn't just a lack of faith in Italian youth, it is a lack of faith in Italian talent in general. Managers and coaches are seeing the sex appeal of players that light up more exciting leagues and not realized that the same players exist right in their own backyard. They are just far too cynical.

[p_maldini_3]

'Destroyed' And 'Sorry' Italy Receive Unwelcome Return In Rome; Lippi & Players React

Goal.com 7 hours, 6 minutes ago

*
* Email
* Print

Italy have arrived back on home soil following their World Cup 2010 exit, and while few fans turned up for the home-coming, a group of angry supporters did make for an uncomfortable arrival.

Lippi and the team arrived at Fiumicino at around 08:00 CET amid a barrage of criticism.

Around 20 fans surrounded the car laid on for the coach and hurled abuse at him. Police and the authorities had to restrain fans and journalists from getting close to the coach as he was bungled into the vehicle before it whisked him away as reporters chased it.

As he was waiting for the driver to drive off, a group of angry protestors made their voices heard on what was a quiet and sombre morning in Rome.

"Shame on you! What a disgrace, you should be ashamed!" shouted the fans as they held up newspapers reporting Italy's failures.

Lippi did find some words, but they are not what everyone wanted to hear.

"I have finished with my comments. My flight was good," he said.

However, there was a sound of optimism as one fan shouted: "you are still great."

Players who are based in central and south of Italy disembarked in Rome. Those based in the north remained for a conncecting flight to Milan's Malpensa.

Quagliarella was one of the first to emerge and his mood was damp, despite playing well in the last game against Slovakia.

"I would have preferred to have gone through rather than play well myself,

"We have all taken responsibility. There's nothing more to say. We tried." he told Sky Sport Italia.

On his future the Napoli man said: "I am going on holiday."

Riccardo Montolivo summed up the feelings in the Azzurri camp.

"We are all sad for this and we feel destroyed," the Fiorentina man said.

Antonio Di Natale added: "We are all sorry."

Giampaolo Pazzini hopes he has a brighter future under Cesare Prandelli who will be unveiled as the new coach on July 1.

"Yes we are all bitter with what happened. Prandelli? Yes I know him well," said the hitman.

Daniele De Rossi was altogether in no mood to share his views.

"No, no, I am tired," he said as he rushed past the chasing press gang. Salvatore Bocchetti, who didn't play in the tournament, said: "We are the first to be sad."

And Simone Pepe agrees with most of the headlines that greeted the players upon their arrival.

"Yes, it's a tragedy for Italian football," said the Juventus man.
=========================

its hard to blame the players. yeah they played like shit in the third game, but that is because they lost all confidence in themselves. if you can't beat new zealand, its what happens.

[Giacomo]

tonykart - no one demanded they retain the WC, but they were easily good enough to top that group. that they finished bottom was lippi's fault.

about the lack of italian players in top clubs, this is a big issue becasue it deprives them of CL/EL football, and excelling in those competitions is an indicator that a player is ready for the national team.

[tonykart]

about the lack of italian players in top clubs, this is a big issue becasue it deprives them of CL/EL football, and excelling in those competitions is an indicator that a player is ready for the national team.

Precisely. The lack of faith in Italian talent from top clubs is depressing and killing the future of Italian Football.

[p_maldini_3]

i agree with both of you, but i personally don't think giovinco is that good. his decision making on the ball is horrible and can be considered very selfish.

[danni_ragazzo]

Whilst i agree that Giovinco's decision making abilities need to improve....he is already light years ahead of either Gilardino or Iaquinta or Pepe!
And i am sure he can form an "instinctive" understanding with Cassano, Bolotelli,Miccoli,Quagliarella or Rossi!

[maro]

Giovinco's a bit lightweight too - I mean, what does it say when you can't get a place in a Rubentus side which performed as terribly as that lot did this season?