THE WOLF'S DEN - Tana dei Lupi II

[maro]

Well, if Schick really is an upgrade on Salah and good value at 38 or 42 mil, this side sure is a heck of a lot stronger today than it was on Saturday. Mind you, this time last year when Sabreteeny was interested in Schick I was left thinking "who?" and all I've seen of him since was when he screwed us last season and I could only think 'karma'. Salah has been lighting it up for Liverpuke, by all reports. Let's see if Schick leaves for 88 mil in three years time or is shipped out to Mexico for 5.

[DavidP]

The problem, as I see it, is the squad, as under Sabreteeny, continues to be built not to win things but to make money.

so we dropped 40m on schick and sent a big 'fuck you' to rube and inter. interesting. i wanted to write something in response to that post of yours on the previous page , because it seemed like a very clear statement of intent, but then i remembered the circus that is today's market where one good season could mean a 150m valuation. still, if the rumours are true that sampdoria will get a big percentage of the future sale, it indicates a pretty significant change from our previous strategy. pallotta may have been serious about winning the whole time, and i think i gave him far too little credit.

[RomaShield27]

Schick might be a clear statement of intent and may prove to be a changing in the managements philosophy, but as good as a signing he may be I still have my doubts. €40m is a lot of money, but if we were really investing in the team then surely we could have got a player who suits the managers system. Schick may work out in a 4-3-3, but based on all evidence he is simply not a natural fit, nor doesn't have the defensive mindset which say Defrel can offer (nor Mahrez or Berardi). Some say we may change formation to a 4-3-2-1 but that is hardly productive three games into the season (also have to wonder if Di Francesco had any input in Schick's arrival at all and if he was consulted on where he could play him).

There are still also gaping holes in other areas of the squad such as centre-back. Who is Rudiger's replacement again? Moreno sure isn't, and EDF has made it clear he isn't a fan of Fazio in his back four. The point is if were going to [re]invest such a large amount of money then should it not have been on players who improve the team as a unit, and not just the quality of players in it? It seems to me like we signed Schick because we had the opportunity to sign a clearly talented and worthwhile player after he had failed moves elsewhere, knowing full well that it will be all plusvalenza on him down the line.

Lots of questions, but nevertheless onward and upward, somehow hoping that our new manager can grind out results and work some magic in an impossibly short space of time. And watch, yet again, as the giallorossi world implodes in on itself if/when it doesn't. The more things change...

[maro]

Forza forza. Isn't one of the points - about Schick - that there's something of LE's tactics to EdF's 4-3-3? That is (and this is the point Davit was making about losing control of the middle of the park when the ball is lost), that the 'wing-forwards' are actually encouraged to play narrow, closer to the striker, with the mezz'ale giving the width and getting outside them at times? That's the sort of thing I used to say was frankly insane in Zeman's tactics and which DDR, I think, clearly disagreed with. We shall see how it goes - but when you see Strootman toeing the white-paint you know this isn't quite a 4-3-3 as we thought we knew it.

Mind you, I'm with thredz on Schick - it's less a fuck you than another individual part that is likely to be economically advantageous when it comes to the next move . . . . Perhaps Moreno can replace Ruediger - lord knows Ruediger didn't arrive to all sorts of fanfare when he came and remains a physical beast with plenty of rough edges. It will be easier to judge the back-four in a couple of months when a few more of the pieces have had a chance to play together, but clearly you're right, thredz - that it remains a very, very open question.

[DavidP]

so our annual water polo match might be avoided this year. thank dog. there is something of LE's tactics there, but i think only with the 2 inside forwards. if anything edf has shown more zeman-like tactics, as maro said. it'll be interesting to see how it all unfolds, and if nothing else, nice to see florenzi and pellegrini flourish. though with this squad, anything below a top 3 finish will be a disappointment.

[RomaShield27]

I'm actually glad its called off, as much as I was looking forward to a game tonight. The more time for Di Francesco and the team to prepare the better, especially after an international break. Now there's only the Champions League and Atletico Madrid to worry about...

I think its very optimistic to expect a top 3 finish, David. Top 4 would be great (especially as there's now 4 CL spots). I honestly think its crazy that in football these days fans expect immediate results, an immediate impact, or at least a team to be playing like a team after only a short space of time. Building a team is not about how many players you can get in your squad to fill out the positions or about how much quality you can buy. A team is all about camaraderie and learning to work together as a unit, about the players having faith and confidence in each other and be willing to fight for it on the pitch, about the players understanding the manager and what he wants for them, and about the manager being able to control it all and implement his football philosophy while at the same time actually win and grind out results.

EDF is a talented manager who will obviously give his all for the club, but he is still a young, inexperienced coach who will take time to learn the ropes at a big club. A lot of new players – as we all know, yet another massive turnover – Karsdorp, Under, Gonalons, Moreno, all new to Italy and Italian football. Pellegrini, Defrel, and even Schick, as talented as he is, all making a big step up. Kolarov is probably the only new arrival capable of hitting the ground running. A brand new defence – fucking again! – which has to learn the managers ideas, which DDR has to learn how to cover, which Manolas has to learn how to lead: who is his centre-back partner? Three games into the season and we're still none the wiser (is JJ actually developing into a reliable defender (I think he may well be)?; can Fazio get back to his top form?; just how good is Moreno?). Will Alisson deal with the pressures of first team football (at least we kept Skorupski thank feck)? The added pressures of an impossibly tough Champions League group. The uncertainty surrounding the new stadio and even the future of the clubs ownership. The first season without Totti.

The more I think about it the crazier it seems to expect everything to fall into place. I dunno, maybe I'm being too negative and not having enough faith, but I think these are all fairly legitimate questions. I'm excited for the season and it will be great to see Florenzi return and Pellegrini play as well Schick, but as always its going to be a very interesting first few months.

[DavidP]

I think its very optimistic to expect a top 3 finish, David. Top 4 would be great (especially as there's now 4 CL spots). I honestly think its crazy that in football these days fans expect immediate results, an immediate impact, or at least a team to be playing like a team after only a short space of time. Building a team is not about how many players you can get in your squad to fill out the positions or about how much quality you can buy. A team is all about camaraderie and learning to work together as a unit, about the players having faith and confidence in each other and be willing to fight for it on the pitch, about the players understanding the manager and what he wants for them, and about the manager being able to control it all and implement his football philosophy while at the same time actually win and grind out results.

point taken, but one could make many of same points about the milan teams. they've had just as much turnover as us, if not more, and we probably have a stronger squad than both.

[Lupa]

The thing about the Inter coach is he's rather familiar with our team and that could help him. The Milan coach also has a past with us, but that's a while ago.

I expect top 4 and hope for top 3.

[DavidP]

[maro]

Yes, I liked this one - I thought it rather better than the follow-up from Gerson in which he thanked the Lord for his contribution while Manolas has meanwhile leapt into the front and in the act of holding his towel up seems to be giving himself a cock-grab while thrusting at the camera. A dodgy pairing, I thought.

[maro]

Messi vs Bruno Peres - one of the classic match-ups of all-time; certainly one for the ages. So long as we can nick an away goal in the first leg to give us something to take back to the Olimpico (even if it's only a 7-1, I mean, that away goal will be something to hold on to).

[Jamoldo]

Messi vs Bruno Peres - one of the classic match-ups of all-time; certainly one for the ages. So long as we can nick an away goal in the first leg to give us something to take back to the Olimpico (even if it's only a 7-1, I mean, that away goal will be something to hold on to).

Do we have to bring up the numbers 7 and 1?

[DavidP]

Alright long post incoming. I never really intended to post this but I guess the fred might do with a little action. This is a little project I’ve been playing around with over the last month or so, summed up below with a few links at the bottom. With Totti now gone and De Rossi entering the twilight of his career, I’ve been thinking about how the opportunity to build a winning team around them that was also enjoyable to watch was pretty much squandered. I won’t talk about the Sensi ownership but since coming to Rome in ‘10-11 til last summer, Pallotta & co spent €100m net in the market with a €480m expenditure and €380m income (source). It made me wonder what would a side actually built around Totti and De Rossi with that money, capable of challenging for the scudetto and CL, have looked like? It started more as a way to understand the basics of tactics and team-building, since these are the players I know best I started there, and it all became a bit sad.

How, then, would one have built around Totti? I would start with signing two players to play within a trident, both of whom look to make runs in behind/attack space, but are also capable with the ball at their feet. The two components that our attackers only had one or the other of too often if I recall. Falcao and Sanchez both seem like good fits. Then most likely full-backs with good engines, who can make well-timed overlapping runs and stretch the defense - at least one who can create danger with the ball at their feet; Sandro and Azpilicueta? Also important to my mind is at least 1 runner from midfield who can play on both sides of the ball and is prepared to make late runs into the box - but both need to be able to provide profondita’ in their own ways. Finally a central defensive pairing able to play a high defensive line and generally players suited to winning the ball high up the pitch. Marquinhos, Koscielny?

IMO De Rossi’s best position is something similar to how and where he played in Garcia’s first season - at the base of the midfield three, not asked to get beyond the ball, a bit like that famous Makelele role with two mobile, technical midfielders ahead of him to relieve him of playmaking duties - not unlike the Daniele-Strootman-Pjanic midfield. At least one ball-playing center back to help with that also. Not unlike Benatia. The midfield trio - DDR-Silva-De Bruyne?

I would probably focus on recruiting players with grinta; professionals with mental strength and good characters. Making a point of respecting the old guard in a way they didn't quite enjoy after the ownership change; a focus on recruiting plenty of local talent when the opportunities present themselves; a long-term focus, not buying anyone with the goal of moving them on in 2 years for big money; combating that outcome by reciprocating loyalty to players and creating a stable environment and a winning team.

Finally a hope of signing some players who are in truth world class, already somewhat experienced, but signing them a moment before their prices reached heights beyond Roma's reach - not unlike what we’ve tried to do over the last few years. Most of the following players were on Roma’s radar at some point; sure it’s unlikely that even the best DS would have made all of these moves, but this is hopefully a what-would-have-suited-DDR-and-Totti tactical discussion and a look back on their qualities and best moments.

So with €100m to spend, while trying realistic transfers, here’s what I came up with.

2010-2013

2014-2017

Transfer details

Anyway that’s it, doing this ultimately shed quite a different light on Sabatini’s and the managements’ dealings for me. Not because they didn't make 20 out-of-this-world transfers, but because they in fact made a couple - and then were happy to sell them. Not splashing 100m+ on Iturbe, Ibarbo, Doumbia, Peres. etc. etc. would have helped too, and while those sort of mistakes are bound to happen, looking back Sabatini fucked up quite a bit in the recruitment process too. Even still, they made some really excellent signings - but how many are still here? It’s sad to think what could have been done with a more long-term strategy.

[Italiamia]

http://www.carlozampa.it/roma-barcellon ... ati-audio/

[Italiamia]

He is pictured in my avatar on the day he left Roma. Today is a sad, sad, day for Roma fans of my generation as we learned the news of his death. In my opinion the finest owner Roma ever had, and will ever have. I have written about him in other threads but the least I could say is that he took on Rometta in 1971 for 1.4 million lire and turned it into Roma. It was he who was directly responsible for the success of the first half of the 1980's. He sold the club to Viola for a mere 1.6 million lire, he was so damn honest. Gaetano Anzalone, my president always.

https://sport.ilmessaggero.it/calcio/an ... 39881.html

https://sport.ilmattino.it/calcio/gaeta ... 40048.html

https://www.ilromanista.eu/news/as-roma ... ndelebili-